View Full Version : frustrated


comeoutontop
07-01-2004, 01:48 AM
Ok, since I optimized www.gotostbarths.com we have completely disappeared from our steady 14th or 15th placement. I am worried, so I am researching not only what I did wrong with our site that it would just drop off the face of the earth in only one weee--!!--but here is my question for you guys--how does a 100% flash site like one of our competitors get such a high listing with zero pagerank? I am not sure I understand how/if tags, etc are used in flash sites...can someone explain how saint-barths<dot>com can rate so high?

Thank you!

leeds1
07-01-2004, 02:07 AM
It's happened to a few sites.

A couple of things.

You may want to consider your intro page and have more text for your targeted KWs. Still have the nice photos etc but have H1 tags for your KWs

Whilst I was browsing to see if you were linking to "bad neighbourhoods" I found a lot of 404 pages from here:

http://www.gotostbarths.com/the_island/about_the_site.htm

I know from experience that google does not like "not founds"

disgust
07-01-2004, 05:10 AM
flash has its problems, but that doesn't make it impossible to rank with.

the title, domain, and incoming anchor text all still work normally.

Ed Robinson
07-02-2004, 05:20 AM
A few suggestions i can see.
1. remove this line:
<META name="revisit-after" content="7 Days">
2. Use some <h> tags, you have no headlines
have you ever looked at a newspaper with no titles on the articles ?
3. St Barths is the first keyword
but you used "St Barth" as your alt image title.
4. There is no text with your keywords that the search engines can read.
images will work as links but they wont work as content. try adding a small paragraph with your keywords and a couple heading tags.

Ed Robinson
www.e-axis-inc.com
www.floattubefisherman.com

Peter (IMC)
07-02-2004, 09:52 AM
Your competitor's site uses frames and the index.htm has been optimized to the max. I would even call it spam.

Your home page has no text and uses way to many table cells, (you really need to re-code that).

Also take out the style sheet and place it in an external (.css) file. The same goes for the java script. Place it in an external (.js) file.

Then try to add some copy. There really is no shame in placing some nice copy under the design. It doesn't have to be close to it, you can leave some lines blank and start with a heading tag followed by some optimized copy.

That should make a real difference.

Regards,

Peter

eCommando
07-02-2004, 02:34 PM
Is there a list of bad neighborhoods?

comeoutontop
07-02-2004, 07:50 PM
Ok, I am beginning to get it now...
Thank you so much for your input!
I'm going to make the changes that you've suggested.
If there is anyone else out there who thinks there is more to say, your comments are really welcome here! :-)

Nick0r
07-03-2004, 12:33 AM
Yep, you're making it pretty hard for yourself to rank high when you have a main page with just a few words and some pictures. You definitely need a paragraph or two of pure content with your keywords nicely added in.

jlknauff
07-03-2004, 09:35 AM
I would replace all of your image links in the left menu with text first. Then as someone else had mentioned-get rid of the tables. Use CSS to control your layout. If you want to see how to do that take a look at my site www.vsssleep.com - there are NO tables at all in this layout. You will also notice that like Peter said, I have no java scripts or CSS in my page. Everything that a search engine has to dig through before it gets to your content will lower your rank. One really cool thing about CSS is that you can controll what the spiders see first and it can be totally different than the layout of the page-something you can not do with tables. If you need more help let me know and I'll take a more detailed look at your site on Moday. Good luck ;)

Peter (IMC)
07-03-2004, 09:42 AM
I would replace all of your image links in the left menu with text first. That would compromise the design too much I think. Using CSS you can maintain the design of the menu buttons while still using text.

This would be something you want to do later,. it should not have priority now. The other things are the first step.

Regards,

Peter

jlknauff
07-03-2004, 09:49 AM
You should be able to, and with less over head than is currently being used.

You have one layer that is the exact size that would be required to hold the menu images and put one image as the bg tiled vertically, thus it only has to load once. Then you place another layer over the top of that with text links using css to position them corectly. Clean fast and SE friendly 8-|

comeoutontop
07-03-2004, 12:23 PM
Peter-

Thanks for responding that was just about to be my next question. How far do you go? I know the site needs a complete overhaul, but I am not the webmaster. I'm just supposed to be helping to optimize it. So without a full-site redesign, how good can I expect the site to rate?

It seems to me if the site was "rock steady at a 14 position for well over a year," then optimizing tags and text shouldn't make it worse. It should be making it better. unfortunately, now that I have touched it, we are nowhere to be seen. I'm pretty freaked out. :-(

I'm working on all of these great suggestions this weekend. It is so great to be able to come here to get suggestions from you guys. Thank you!!

comeoutontop
07-03-2004, 12:36 PM
<Gripe Post> Surely there is a way in dreamweaver to link every page to the .css file rather than doing it one page at a time...eek....I'm trying to put in headings/H tags and every page has headings that are not tagged, just text that is bold/italic, etc. This could take years....

Peter (IMC)
07-03-2004, 01:38 PM
Kimberly,

SEO is for the bigger part, manual work. Thatīs why there are so many SEO consultants,. :D If it could be 100% automated, we would all be doing something else.

I know of one CMS that does most of the coding seo friendly, but still you would need to know SEO in order to get really well optimized pages.

Peter

comeoutontop
07-03-2004, 11:16 PM
So the big question...drumroll please!...what is that one CMS??? :-)

Peter (IMC)
07-04-2004, 03:38 AM
CMS means Content Management System.

It is a system that dynamically creates web pages and makes it very easy to manage all the content in your website without having to build each page manually. The only thing you would have to do is create the unique content for each page, but all repeating parts like the menu, header and footer are taken from a template.

It is a Shopping Cart (http://www.applepiecart.com) with the beautiful name: Apple Pie. It contains a CMS that is about the most search engine friendly system that I have seen.

Peter

comeoutontop
07-05-2004, 06:47 PM
I am familiar with CMS, but am not familiar with this product. I'll have a look now. I am curious about how to integrate CMS with dreamweaver, not sure that I fully understand how to do that yet--but that's ok!

More to learn! :-)
Thanks, Peter.

Peter (IMC)
07-06-2004, 05:16 AM
With a good CMS there is no need for dreamweaver or any other web page creator. Thatīs all part of the CMS.

Imagine how easy your life would be, just adding content without having to worry about internal links (they get created automatically), html code, etc.

Peter

seobook
07-06-2004, 06:51 AM
[QUOTE=Peter (IMC)]With a good CMS there is no need for dreamweaver or any other web page creator. Thatīs all part of the CMS.

Imagine how easy your life would be, just adding content without having to worry about internal links (they get created automatically), html code, etc.

Peter[/QUOTE]

and what most people fail to tell other people is that a blog with a big fat group of wonderful extensions (like movabletype has) is a decent content management system for most people. my most successful site is just my SEO Blog.

some good affordable content management systems can be created in php or OS commerce type shopping cart.

my friend taught himself PHP in a couple days and built / rebuilt this ;) Garage Door Openers (http://www.usdoorcontrol.com) website with new images and a new interface and compatible items and stuff like that in about a week or two. he even has a url that autogenerates the froogle feed any time you visit it.

I do not think most people need to spend the big bucks on a content management system. especially with things like php and sever side includes.

Peter (IMC)
07-06-2004, 06:57 AM
I do not think most people need to spend the big bucks on a content management system. especially with things like php and sever side includes.I agree, if you are a programmer you can do many things yourself without paying for a professional system. Though many of those free open source systems aren't that good in creating search engine friendly pages.

Peter

comeoutontop
07-06-2004, 09:48 AM
wow--good stuff.

Right now, my priority is how to explain losing a solid 14th spot on google and falling into oblivion at my hand. Ugh.

As far as content management goes, I am all for the idea of controling the site so that the content falls into the correct place without messing up the template. We are going to have several people all over the world working on this site and it freaks me out to think that everyone can change everything. Gotta work out a better system for control...

I know a little about blogs (have several orphaned ones), plus an os commerce shopping cart avail from my host I think, plus a php discussion board that I have fiddled with. Still trying to figure out how they all plug together.

It has to be said--the SEOBook.com website it beautiful!! Love, love love that huge, crisp logo! Very nice, clean design. Great job.

jlknauff
07-06-2004, 09:52 AM
CMS-check out Plone.

Peter (IMC)
07-06-2004, 10:01 AM
Kimberly,

Have you done any work to the site already? Let us know so we can take a look at it.

Peter

jlknauff
07-06-2004, 10:10 AM
Replace your head with the code I posted below. You will still have to clean up your KWs & description-way to many characters. Keep them below 255, I would go even less. Put your java script into an external file and link to it instead of having it in the head. You can look at my site www.vsssleep.com to see how to do that. I don't know much about js so I don't know if you even need that code anyway, but I did take one out that has to do with the NS 4 resize-DW automatically put it in. I'll try to take a look a little deeper when I have some more time. Good luck.

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META name="keywords" content="St. Barts, St. Barths, St Barts, Saint Barthelemy, Barth, Barthelemy, Bart, Barts, Barths, French West Indies, Guadeloupe, st. barts weather, beach photos of st. barts, st. barts hotel, surf photos from st. barts, surfing photos from st. barts, photos of st. barts, st. barts clothing optional beach, gustavia, northern antilles, review of st. barts hotels, restaurants st. barts, st. barts specials, surfing in st. barts, couples beach photos from st. barts, beach pictures of st. barts, st. bart's webcam, st. bart's and cheap hotels, st. bart's and economy, clothing optional beaches st. bart's, grande saline beach, st. bart's, le tom hotel st. bart's, rentals st. bart's, guanahani and st. bart's, tom hotel st. bart's, st. bart's and moratorium, st. bart's and map">
<META name="description" content="The Island of St. Barth's - Nestled between the Caribbean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean, in the Northern Antilles Arc, St. Barth, a tiny island of 25kmē, has managed to combine tradition and modernity. This island has succeeded in guarding its untouched wildlife and precious environment. The weather is always good in St. Barth with temperatures ranging from 22°C to 30°C. Very little rain and swimming in the transparent waters which never go below 26°C is possible all-year round. St. Barth is composed of 17 beaches, a capital, Gustavia, villages, luxury hotels but also quaint inns, all ready to welcome and charm visitors">
<title>The Island of St. Barth's</title>
<script language="JavaScript">
function MM_preloadImages() { //v3.0
var d=document; if(d.images){ if(!d.MM_p) d.MM_p=new Array();
var i,j=d.MM_p.length,a=MM_preloadImages.arguments; for(i=0; i<a.length; i++)
if (a[i].indexOf("#")!=0){ d.MM_p[j]=new Image; d.MM_p[j++].src=a[i];}}
}

function MM_findObj(n, d) { //v4.0
var p,i,x; if(!d) d=document; if((p=n.indexOf("?"))>0&&parent.frames.length) {
d=parent.frames[n.substring(p+1)].document; n=n.substring(0,p);}
if(!(x=d[n])&&d.all) x=d.all[n]; for (i=0;!x&&i<d.forms.length;i++) x=d.forms[i][n];
for(i=0;!x&&d.layers&&i<d.layers.length;i++) x=MM_findObj(n,d.layers[i].document);
if(!x && document.getElementById) x=document.getElementById(n); return x;
}

function MM_nbGroup(event, grpName) { //v3.0
var i,img,nbArr,args=MM_nbGroup.arguments;
if (event == "init" && args.length > 2) {
if ((img = MM_findObj(args[2])) != null && !img.MM_init) {
img.MM_init = true; img.MM_up = args[3]; img.MM_dn = img.src;
if ((nbArr = document[grpName]) == null) nbArr = document[grpName] = new Array();
nbArr[nbArr.length] = img;
for (i=4; i < args.length-1; i+=2) if ((img = MM_findObj(args[i])) != null) {
if (!img.MM_up) img.MM_up = img.src;
img.src = img.MM_dn = args[i+1];
nbArr[nbArr.length] = img;
} }
} else if (event == "over") {
document.MM_nbOver = nbArr = new Array();
for (i=1; i < args.length-1; i+=3) if ((img = MM_findObj(args[i])) != null) {
if (!img.MM_up) img.MM_up = img.src;
img.src = (img.MM_dn && args[i+2]) ? args[i+2] : args[i+1];
nbArr[nbArr.length] = img;
}
} else if (event == "out" ) {
for (i=0; i < document.MM_nbOver.length; i++) {
img = document.MM_nbOver[i]; img.src = (img.MM_dn) ? img.MM_dn : img.MM_up; }
} else if (event == "down") {
if ((nbArr = document[grpName]) != null)
for (i=0; i < nbArr.length; i++) { img=nbArr[i]; img.src = img.MM_up; img.MM_dn = 0; }
document[grpName] = nbArr = new Array();
for (i=2; i < args.length-1; i+=2) if ((img = MM_findObj(args[i])) != null) {
if (!img.MM_up) img.MM_up = img.src;
img.src = img.MM_dn = args[i+1];
nbArr[nbArr.length] = img;
} }
}
//-->
</script>
</head>

seobook
07-06-2004, 11:35 AM
[QUOTE=comeoutontop]It has to be said--the SEOBook.com website it beautiful!! Love, love love that huge, crisp logo! Very nice, clean design. Great job.[/QUOTE]

I like the logo a bunch when it was made. I have been given crap by some usability experts for it, but it is the only branded part of my site. the rest is all just plain jane. :)

I may have a designer type friend go through and make slight modifications to it soon though... some of the inner pages need fixed.

Peter (IMC)
07-06-2004, 12:15 PM
I have been given crap by some usability experts for it Navigation could indeed be made a bit simpler,.. :)

Kimberly,

Title should be no more than 70 characters (the rest won't be visible in search engines like Google.) Have the main keyword(s) show up in the title. Don't target the same keywords in more than 1 page, it will just confuse the search engines.

Meta description should be around 180 characters, no more than 225 and it should describe the page, not the site. Repeast the keywords for that page a couple of times.

The same goes for the meta keywords tag. Just the keywords you are targeting should be in there and perhaps some subtopical versions of the keywords as well. Also just for the page, not the site. So just 3 to 6 words is more than enough. Seperate,all,words,by,just,commas.

Regards,

Peter

SEO Jason
07-08-2004, 12:27 PM
Now I know this may be off topic, but is it really St. Barth's because I always thought it was St. Bart's. Or is that two different places in the carribean?