I am curious

[frobn]

I just joined the forum and I am curious as why there is so little on friendly web design when if this is suppose to be a forum on Search Engine Friendly Web Design

[Paz]

[QUOTE=frobn]I just joined the forum and I am curious as why there is so little on friendly web design when if this is suppose to be a forum on Search Engine Friendly Web Design[/QUOTE]

Good question - maybe we are too busy making our web pages friendly for search engines, and not for people!

Food for thought!

Cheers,
Paz.

[frobn]

[QUOTE=Paz]Good question - maybe we are too busy making our web pages friendly for search engines, and not for people!

Food for thought!

Cheers,
Paz.[/QUOTE]

Great, that means there are some extra-ordinary user friendly sites out there. Anyone what to share their secrets. I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Just kidding, as long as I know people are interested I'll put some info up on user friendliness,

[dejaone]

It's a balance between search engine friendly and user friendly. If you get most of traffic from search engines, I'd place more on SE friendly. If you get most of traffic from repeating users, i won't worry about search engines at all.

[frobn]

[QUOTE=dejaone]It's a balance between search engine friendly and user friendly. If you get most of traffic from search engines, I'd place more on SE friendly. If you get most of traffic from repeating users, i won't worry about search engines at all.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmmmm... and I thought they were one and same or at least so closely intertwined that one potentates the other.

I just finished writing about the interplay of usability and SEO and will share a little. This is more like the conclusion.

Beyond SEO or the built it and they will come syndrome

Suppose you build it and they come but they leave just as quickly. Study after study on web site behavior has shown that the main reasons visitors abandon a site is because the site loads slowly or is difficult to get around. In other words, its the usability factor again. The impact of usability on SEO is not only to attract visitors to your web site but to also keep them from leaving and going to your competitor's web site.

[Paz]

I agree with most of what you both said, but I can't agree that a site that is optimised for search engines (esp. competitive terms) will also look good for humans.

That's why some people try to make doorway pages, isn't it?

Anyway, here are some pages I found useful. The funny thing is that their design contains elements that they warn against in the text!!!

You still might find them helpful though.

www.edtech.vt.edu/edtech/id/interface/index.html
personalweb.about.com/cs/webdesigntips/a/301design.htm (and links on page!)

Looking forward to your contribution frobn!

Cheers,
Paz.

[frobn]

[QUOTE=Paz]I agree with most of what you both said, but I can't agree that a site that is optimised for search engines (esp. competitive terms) will also look good for humans.

[/QUOTE]

I am curious again. Can you give me an example of how an optimised site interfers with usability, or as you put it not "look good for humans." I think if you find something that is good for one but not the other then the challange is to find a way to accomplish the same tasks without the negative effects.

[Paz]

[QUOTE=frobn]I am curious again. Can you give me an example of how an optimised site interfers with usability, or as you put it not "look good for humans." I think if you find something that is good for one but not the other then the challange is to find a way to accomplish the same tasks without the negative effects.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly. I was trying to describe "search engine cloaking" without mentioning it by name - a bad idea with hindsight- and how it can be used to present different pages to different people.... one page is attractive to SE's but looks spammy to humans, and the other looks good to humans, but wouldn't necessarily achieve a good SERPS ranking.

I don't have any examples, they are by their very nature difficult to find, and Google is getting better at detecting and banning them.

Maybe someone else here can point us to a current one?

Cheers,
Paz.

[frobn]

[QUOTE=Paz]...and Google is getting better at detecting and banning them.
[/QUOTE]

That is the best reason I have heard why it is best not to use such methods. I went to your sites, your code is head and shoulders above the vast majority web developers. Don't waste time and energy trying to out-fox the search engines, use it to improve content. The future of the search lies in usability and relevent content. Within a year search engines will be using artificial intelligence to weight the relevance of a web site's content. Developers who are locked into playing games with the search engines will be left in the dust. The internet is information, provide good information in the form of content and your sites will move up in the search engine ratings.

[jlknauff]

[QUOTE=dejaone]It's a balance between search engine friendly and user friendly.[/QUOTE]If done properly they will be one in the same ;) Ethical SEO presents no problems for human visitors.

[dejaone]

There's a big difference betwen an ideal search engine and a state of art search egnine. An ideal search engine is the aggregation of average web users. Search engine friendly is very close to user friendly in an ideal search engine. But we're still at the very early stage of search engine development. Google's VP of technolgy said that 95% of new search technology has yet to be developed.

Good SEO can balance the gap, but can't eliminate the gap.