SEO - Cheating ???
 

Hi Seobook

I have a question. earlier in this thread you stated:



MMMmmmm IMIO (I=Insane) SEO is more like a puzzle. The truely good ones realize that the entire time people are going on about spammy results and links which are dead as far as Google PageRank goes, theres a vast number of ways to make websites "user friendly"

Hard term to grasp for many but so simple to optimize a site by, that its almost hard not to get to googles front page no matter which industry.


And someone else asked why not use the "black hat" doorway pages, gateways etc to get to the front pages.

The best reason I can give you is seven different webmasters I know tried and each one of them got a google ban..That's when I met them :cool:

Peace

Geeee and wheres the zebras, me and jkl got in a spat and the police were all over the place lol

Blame for what... Spammy sites? Bad Results? Who do you think makes those spammy sites? Webmasters do.


Hello. This is Marketing 101. High traffic sites attract advertisers. Google didn't make this up, they just decided to listen to marketers.


LoL. How can the words on our site mislead? All we offer is web designer related content. Repeating words would be something like, "SEO, SEO, SEO".
If you think that my site has spam. you should check out this one site I found. "SEO Book is a blog about search engines which offers search engine optimization tips, an SEO ebook for sale, and covers search engine news. Got search engine questions?" Do you think they are repeating words? Seeing that the term "SEO" is repeated no less then 40 times on their homepage.



Maybe you'd like a star for that achievement? Honestly though, I'm glad you speak out against Traffic Power. Even if you send mixed signals by doing so.


If I cared enough to target that keyword, then I'd gladly move past your 10th spot position. Thankfully for your ebook, I'd rather focus on the web design keywords, since nobody outside webmasters even knows what SEO stands for.


Good for you. My question is, "How much spam did you use to rank well?". We know that the porn site was probably full of spam. Please enlighten.


Great. Lets see if our sites traffic drops from 2,000 visitors a day to 0 in 1 week. I'll keep you updated.


Well. If the author if the site admits that their site is full of spam, then maybe I should submit it. Or even better.. Now that the author is one who reports spam filled sites, perhaps he will report himself.


Most of our SEO clients are repeat customers. So it's not necessary for us to explain the dangers of Spam and how search engines penalize sites that use spam.

there will always be some spammy sites. it is bad algorithms that show them as relevant results.


was google trying to create a product just for marketers?


1.) not misleading...it said misleading OR repetitive
2.) perhaps you should clean up your own site before trying to judge others?



no mixed signals here. I do not need to create generic keyword rich reciprocal link required directories to try to promote my services. I do not run a blue gecko directory / network subdomain on my site.


have the decency to admit when you are outmatched. SEO Guy outranks my site and probably will do for a decent amount of time. I know that he has invested more into his position and has worked hard to get a wide following and build a good forum.

your site would never rank for "seo" on Google even if you wanted to.


again you are speaking in ignorant tones. I never worked on a porn site. I said adult.


if it does not then we know that google ignores at least some of the spam reports.



that was the whole point. rather rude of you to make me report your spam filled site. I already reported my site a while ago, but Google thought it was great.


so you only inform repeat customers. don't sound like a guy who is actually out to help others unless he is helping his own wallet. on the web generally that is not cool...at least from what I understand of it.

>>I do care because it screws up the system for everyone else.

People like you make my day just that little bit brighter. While you're busy prancing around on your white horse clothed in self righteous indignation at the state of somebody elses website, waving your self imposed obligation to the general public about like some kind of banner, im working on my websites.

The english have a good word for people like you

There is no "self reghteous indignation" involved here I simply don't approve of or encourage spam. Who's job do I think it is to stop spam? Webmasters, not Googles. In addition, people who use spam don't see the effect it has on millions when google updates their algorithm to better combat spam.

See, everyone says it's googles job to come up with better algorithms to stop spam. Then SEO's get mad when google updates because all their sites get dropped. I just think that that's stupid.


What would constitute a Good algorithm in your eyes? Yahoo's? Msn's?


No. Google was listening to marketers, so that they can make more money. Marketers said, built a website that people find useful, and people wil use it. Then we'll display ads and make tons of money. So that's what happened.


There is nothing to clean up. The site is fine.
Ranks well, looks good, does it's job without relying on spam.


Mixed signals were sent when you said that "SEO = SPAM = SEO", and then said that Traffic Power is bad because they use Spam. Direct Contridiction.
Why would you want to run Blue Gecko Directory / network subdomain on your site? A. There are not enough webmasters who would want to be included in your directory should you create one. And B. Blue Gecko is our name, so it'd be kind of wierd to run a Blue Gecko Directory from your site.


Agreed. SEO Guy is quite the challenger. I also can admit when I'm outmatched. 1234-find-web-designers.org ranks for all the top keywords, and has build a strong base of sites that link back to him.

Funny thing is that we do rank in Google for "SEO". We just don't care either way.

There is probably little difference when it comes to optimizing either an adult or porn site. You admit that spam is the only way of optimizing such sites, and your probably right. This whole debate happend because adult/porn sites show up for innocent search terms. Your answer is for Google to update their algorithm. My answer is for webmasters to stop spam.
Both answers work, the only difference is that Google will take thousands of businesses down each time it updates their algorithm. Then everyone blames google. But thats the problem with algorithms. It effects everyones site.

Ignoring and not penailizing are two different things. But to make it simple, I'll agree that Google probably does Ignore the sites reported who dont have any spam on them.


I said that most of our clients are repeat customers so there is no reason to explain the dangers of using Spam. - What I meant was that our clients don't need to worry about being dropped off of google, because we don't use spam techniques. Since most of our clients are repeat customers, we don't get many new customers coming to use saying that, "our last seo company used spam and now we're dropped... Why did they drop us, and what how much do we need to pay you to get us back in the index".
Now dont get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with customers coming to SEO's with that problem. I was just saying that it would save everyone grief if SEO's used white hat techniques, rather then black hat techniques.

>Mixed signals were sent when you said that "SEO = SPAM = SEO", and then said that Traffic Power is bad because they use Spam.

I never stated that traffic power was bad because they spam. I stated that they suck because they cold call people AND because they fail to inform clients of risks they take.

ANY QUALITY SEO SERVICE USUALLY HAS SOME AMOUNT OF RISK TO IT.TP choses to use extremely high risk techniques and hurts other businesses by not disclosing the risks.

at this point the posts have become rhetorical circle talk. do you want to make one last post before we close the thread Blue Gecko?

one of us has talk on the phone to search product management at large search engines for hours. be sure that no matter what you say or do the search results will bring up some spammy sites.

(creeps in quietly)

Why should it be anyone's job to police spam. Its a nuisance for search engine results mainly for the user and the SE company, and then for seo's. Its not illegal to have a spammy site if you want to make one, just don't expect to be listed in all search engines and directories. Search engines have the task of exraciting the correct results from a large document set. That's the challenge. They engineer algos to ensure the most relevant results appear. I build search and I welcome seo's to try and cheat my algos, its a great way of testing.

One thing I would like to toss in.

If the below is true for businesses who rank well on google,



Then the business was not that sound to begin with. I am nowhere close to google front page ( Ok I am a litle but not enough) and have plenty of business.

One should close shop and head for the hills if a listing in google wll make or break the business.

""Never place all your eggs in one basket" <---what they don't teach you in Harvard


Clint

Very true-if all of your business comes from one place you pretty much deserve to go under. It's called evolution my friend, and only the strong survive :useforce:

Well IMHO Search Engines have no responsability for your business online. As far as they are concerend, they just retrieve the site url and present it to the user.
If you go bankrupt because of being dropped,...bad business descision.