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10-03-2004, 03:17 PM
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SEO
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 481
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Whose job is it to police SEO spam?
I was trying to find some link exchange partners only to find three websites in the top 10 for one of our KW's that were all using 'invisible text' - about 100 words in really tiny white text on a white background. This is completely rediculous. I reported the first guy to Google, then I wanted to email the second but then thought, what if these guys sit there and click thru my Adword ads all day and cost me a fortune.
I'm up against keyword spammers and traffic power customers. I hate competing with cheaters!
Whose job is it to police this crap?
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10-03-2004, 03:49 PM
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SEO
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: the middle east
Posts: 756
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clickfraud is a huge problem now days -
I stopped all overture ads for now (lots of clicks, poor conversion)
and started monitoring adwords daily - disabled the "content" so I'll get only clicks from biG, not their affiliates and I compare ref ammounts and check IP referrals... 
hate cheaters...
I beleive you should report shameless abusers and try to
beat them fair-play...  |
10-03-2004, 03:56 PM
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SEO GUY Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: we are Penn State!!!
Posts: 468
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by interactive
Whose job is it to police this crap?
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search engines.
most stuff can be beat using legit techniques if you are willing to invest the time and money into it and can create a better site / idea from the start.
IMHO seo is about cheating...its about doing what is wise to make your stuff rank well. there are some ways that are more risky and some that are less.
Yahoo! edits their results so they may be more likely to respond to spam reports than google |
10-03-2004, 04:14 PM
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SEO
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: the middle east
Posts: 756
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by seobook
IMHO seo is about cheating...
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hi Aaron,
I think that eventually good and quick responds to the search environment can be classified as wisdom rater than a cheat... 
p.s - the MSN beta crashed... will someone explain what the f*** are they doing?  |
10-03-2004, 09:08 PM
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SEO Junior
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 26
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Quote:
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IMHO seo is about cheating...its about doing what is wise to make your stuff rank well. there are some ways that are more risky and some that are less.
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IMHO Seo is about making the valuable content on your site just as valuable to machines as it is to humans.
Content is always King, and that is how Google is setup. Google is setup to help people find information. If you don't provide valuable information on your site, yet are still trying to optimize your site to rank well, then you are doing exactly what Google is trying to prevent - making a useless site seem useful to machines and not humans.
If you have a site with tons of great information, then a child could optimize it. |
10-03-2004, 09:14 PM
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SEO Junior
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 26
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IMHO it is not the Search Engines job to police SPAM. It is the people who use Search Engines job. (ie. You and Me).
When we see spam we should report it to Google. Google will then alter it's algorithm to help elimate spam.
It's setup almost like our our justice system. Google (the courts) creates laws. When we find a site breaking those laws (SPAM), we report them to google. Google then penalizes those sites, and creates new laws (algorithms) to make the web better.
If you don't report spam when you see it, then you don't have a right to complain when sites SPAM their way to the top of the SERPS. - That is my view.
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10-03-2004, 10:05 PM
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SEO Junior and a half
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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IMHO it is not the Search Engines job to police SPAM. It is the people who use Search Engines job. (ie. You and Me).
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I think not. IMO there needs to be a redress in the way seos and webmasters think about poor quality serps.
Here's a quote from NFFC in a thread over at sew
This is in answer to "who should take responsiblity for spam" - or some similar earlier point in the thread
Quote:
>Responsibility for what?
For their own web site. I assume you take responsibility for yours, I take it for mine. Lets hold Google to the same standards that we aim for ourselves.
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The fact is, Google cant control their own algorithm so, in the best tradition of cluetrainesque smoke and mirros PR (public relations) they blame the users of the system.
Dont fall for it.
Nick |
10-03-2004, 10:11 PM
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SEO GUY Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: we are Penn State!!!
Posts: 468
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bluegecko
IMHO Seo is about making the valuable content on your site just as valuable to machines as it is to humans.
Content is always King, and that is how Google is setup. Google is setup to help people find information. If you don't provide valuable information on your site, yet are still trying to optimize your site to rank well, then you are doing exactly what Google is trying to prevent - making a useless site seem useful to machines and not humans.
If you have a site with tons of great information, then a child could optimize it.
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not true. usually its worthwhile to make stuff seem great, but most people are too lazy to create something amazingly worthwhile...yet when you search for dvd players you still get a result.
sure your own site should be good, but most people do not want to make an amazing website...they just want the profits as if they made one.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bluegecko
IMHO it is not the Search Engines job to police SPAM. It is the people who use Search Engines job. (ie. You and Me).
When we see spam we should report it to Google. Google will then alter it's algorithm to help elimate spam.
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is it our job to share in the financial profits when the algorithm works well?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bluegecko
It's setup almost like our our justice system. Google (the courts) creates laws. When we find a site breaking those laws (SPAM), we report them to google. Google then penalizes those sites, and creates new laws (algorithms) to make the web better.
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Google rarely penalizes the sites you turn in. I make my site for whoever I want, but not 100% of the site design and concepts are made specifically for google. they are no court and they are making millions or billions of dollars of profits from people blindly following the things that help their business model.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bluegecko
If you don't report spam when you see it, then you don't have a right to complain when sites SPAM their way to the top of the SERPS. - That is my view.
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you have the right to complain about anything you want. just because you report it dones not give you some special privilege. |
10-31-2004, 07:44 PM
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SEO Junior
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 26
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by seobook
not true. usually its worthwhile to make stuff seem great, but most people are too lazy to create something amazingly worthwhile...yet when you search for dvd players you still get a result.
sure your own site should be good, but most people do not want to make an amazing website...they just want the profits as if they made one.
is it our job to share in the financial profits when the algorithm works well?
Google rarely penalizes the sites you turn in. I make my site for whoever I want, but not 100% of the site design and concepts are made specifically for google. they are no court and they are making millions or billions of dollars of profits from people blindly following the things that help their business model.
you have the right to complain about anything you want. just because you report it dones not give you some special privilege.
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We don't share in the financial profits, no. But we do use their website to find useful information. If you are relying on Google to police it's own site, then don't complain that it does a bad job of taking care of spam.
It's like voting. If you don't vote, don't complain when you get screwed by the government.
I do have the right to complain because I DO report it. You on the other hand don't report it, so it's you who has no right to complain about spam.
Quote:
Just for the record I don't use these methods myself since it could possibly give me a penalty, but I can fully understand the ones who do. It's not at all bad moral as long as your site's as informative and presentable as the other ones among the top 10. Of course, if a Viagra site turns up when I search for my hotel, then it's time to report spam
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I can understand the desire of individuals to want to spam, but that doesn't mean that I don't care if they do spam. I do care because it screws up the system for everyone else. Take meta tags for instance. Once upon a time, they were actually useful ways of telling a search engine what your site was about, now they are worth nothing because of Spammers.
That doesn't mean that it's wrong to optimize a site, it just means that by going too far, they've wrecked things for everyone else. And that is why I report spammers. |
10-31-2004, 08:11 PM
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SEO GUY Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: we are Penn State!!!
Posts: 468
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bluegecko
We don't share in the financial profits, no. But we do use their website to find useful information. If you are relying on Google to police it's own site, then don't complain that it does a bad job of taking care of spam.
It's like voting. If you don't vote, don't complain when you get screwed by the government.
I do have the right to complain because I DO report it. You on the other hand don't report it, so it's you who has no right to complain about spam.
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you only need to justify your complaints to yourself. I can complain about anything I want to.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bluegecko
I can understand the desire of individuals to want to spam, but that doesn't mean that I don't care if they do spam. I do care because it screws up the system for everyone else. Take meta tags for instance. Once upon a time, they were actually useful ways of telling a search engine what your site was about, now they are worth nothing because of Spammers.
That doesn't mean that it's wrong to optimize a site, it just means that by going too far, they've wrecked things for everyone else. And that is why I report spammers.
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spam is a concept which was created to push adherance to the search engines business models. even if people did not abuse meta tags search engines would have some other arbitrary things to complain about to show how evil other people are for thier algorithm not working perfectly. |
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