Hi, I'm an SEO newbie, guess that's why I'm having a hard time understanding this apparent contradiction.

Why is that when I check Wordtracker for a search term, it tells me in the "Competing" column, in cases, that there are 0 websites competing, whereas I go to your tool, at http://www.seo-guy.com/seo-tools/google-pr.php - and stick in the same keyword, in set the Pages Depth at 10, and the PageRank at 4, and it comes back with 100 websites with at least PR4 for that same term?

I mean, if they have a PR 4 for that search term, they must be competing for that search term, so why does Wordtracker say 0 are competing?

No entiendo.

hmm..

hard to explain. But i will try.

For example:

say the keyword is "house" search that in google, you will see the site ranked #1 of 124,000,000 website is /http://www.whitehouse.gov that has a PR 9. So does that mean it's competing for the keyword "house"? Not at all.

If you check for that keyword in wordtracker, I think you will get 0 competiting or maybe a few competing.

So what i am trying to get at is wordtracker's Competing & PR has no combinition in between them whatsoever.

I think i did a bad job in explaining.lol

But hey. i tried

Sunny

Well, that helps me distinguish between the definition of PR and the Wordtracker competing category, but I'm still confused as how to proceed.

If your PR tool tells me that there are at least 100 PR4 sites for a given keyword (could be more, right, because your tool maxes out at 100 sites) , while Wordtracker says there are many fewer, even zero, competing pages, then am I supposed to trust WOrdtracker, when it says that the KEI for that keyword is fairly promising (30+ or even 100+ in some cases.)

So I'm supposed to believe WOrdtracker that I can compete in building pages optimized for this keyword, even when your tool tells me there are some 100 PR4 pages answering to that same keyword?

Seems like a tough competition, even though WOrdtracker gives it a good KEI.

(By the way, I can provide the specific keywords, if you want to look at specifics, rather than the general idea.)

Thanks for your help.

PR does not in any way dictate the final ability to rank. It can help, and in more and more competition it becomes more and more important however you can trump any non competitive keyword with a PR 0 page even competing against all PR 6 and above because they simply arent trying for it.

I think the point im trying to make is that at the non-competition level PR is irrelevant. I did a search 2 pages deep for "using a custom avatar" the #1 page is PR 0 the #20 page is PR 5. The point "who cares about using custom avatar" however if that PR 5 page decided to go after "using a custom avatar" it could easily take the #1 spot

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Trying to rank #1 for SEO in Google I'm on the first page but not there yet, if you can link to any page on SEO Guy site with kw SEO (MAinpage preferred) it would be greatly appreciated.

Well, you're getting warmer now, I mean closer to helping me figure out the answer to this. Buuuuuut ...

Here are the instructions for your PR tool:

"How does it work? You enter a keyword that you're interested in VIA the "Keywords" section. You then enter the amount of pages you want to Check in Google and finally you enter the Pagerank limit that you want the tool to find. The tool will then report all websites that are listed in Google for your keyword within the specified pagedepth that have "x" amount of pagerank or more."

So you're saying that pages returned with this tool are NOT necessarily optimized for the keywords entered??

Like to be specific, if I enter into Wordtracker, "costa rica land sale" - Wordtracker tells me it is KEI 36.000, count of 6, and competing sites are 0 - which makes it seem easy to compete against, but then I enter the same keyword "costa rica land sale" in your tool - and it gives me a slew of 100 pages of PR4 or PR5, then I'm supposed to be confident that little ol' me can somehow build a brand name webpage optimized for "costa rica land sale" and blow away all these PR4 and PR5 pages?

Otra vez, no entiendo.

So what you are saying is that the 100 webpages returned with your tool after entering a particular keyphrase (in my case, "costa rica land sale") are not necessarily optimized for that keyword, even though they are PR4 or PR5?

If they aren't optimized for that keyword why are they returned in the results - it means they just willy-nilly happened to have that keyword in their pages?

Also, how do you know they are not optimized for that keyword?

Thinking out loud, here's the source of my confusion perhaps:

I'd heard elsewhere that the Keyword Effectiveness Index KEI of Wordtracker is now being called into question by some folks, like Dan Thies, for being not completely reliable, maybe obsolete these days.

So when I get a KEI of 36 for my chosen keyword, which is ostensibly a promising KEI according to Wordtracker, but I find with your PR tool that there are 100 pages with that same keyword with PR4 or PR5, really makes me wonder how much stuck to put in Wordtracker, and not only the KEI, I mean how can WOrdtracker say that there are 0 competing pages, with that keyphrase, once again it's "costa rica land sale." 0 competing pages? How do they come up with that?

Okay, I thought that the purpose of your PR tool was to tell how many webpages are competing for any given keyword, but evidently that's not it at all, it just randomly calls up webpages that just happen to have that keyword, as well as having the other criteria of being PR4, 5 or whatever setting you choose?

TIA, dannyfaw

Does anyone have an answer to these questions? Thanx

Ok it seems your completely confused, let me clarify.

First off, the purpose of my PR tool is to report PR. The results pulled are the exact 100 results from the US centered data proxy. You type in a keyword and specify a pagerank limit of 0 then it will return all pages with PR 0 or above in the top 100 ranks for that keyword, so it will return all 100 results.

Now, PR does not = competition, lets say you type in the keyword "the" you will get a bunch of high PR sites in the top listings. Are they competing for that keyword "NO!" is there intentional competition for that keyword "NO!" so because absolutely noone is going for that garbage term, google has no competitive factors to rank them for so it comes down to pagerank.

What would word tracker say about competition for the kw "the" I imagine it would say it has little to no competition, although admittedly I dont use wordtracker.

Here is what you need to know, just because the results for a particular keyword phrase all have high PR does not mean they are competiting or that they are competitive terms.

Factors that determine how competitive a phrase is in reality is #1: the bid price for the term, if people are willing to pay per click they are likely willing to pay an SEO and thus are entering into intentional competition for that term. #2: the amount of traffic a term has, if a phrase is even semi targeted and has a sufficient volume of traffic then it is worth paying an SEO to go after and thus has intentional competition.

#3: The amount of sites that incidentally happen to have your keyword in the body somewhere, this creates non intentional competition "out of 1,900,000 pages" sort of thing.

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Trying to rank #1 for SEO in Google I'm on the first page but not there yet, if you can link to any page on SEO Guy site with kw SEO (MAinpage preferred) it would be greatly appreciated.

My advice dont equate Pagerank to competition, its something you need but only 1 of 1000 things you need

__________________
Trying to rank #1 for SEO in Google I'm on the first page but not there yet, if you can link to any page on SEO Guy site with kw SEO (MAinpage preferred) it would be greatly appreciated.